Interview Transcripts
from our archive
Local people talking about how and what life was like on Bernera and Tir Mor in the past.
1) Discussion between lain X. MacIver and Murdo MacDonald (Murchadh An Töbh), Thule House, Tobson, Bernera, Isle of Lewis
2) Mary Ann and Bean Dolligan Macdonald of 4 Earshader interviewed by Elizabeth Macleod, 3 Crulivig.
3) Niall Iain and Domhnall Sgaire discussing lobster fishing when they were young with an unknown interviewer.
4) Calum and Marv MacDonald. 2 Lundale interviewed by Elizabeth Macleod
Discussion between lain X. MacIver and Murdo MacDonald (Murchadh An Töbh), Thule House, Tobson, Bernera, Isle of Lewis
Iain - Hello, good evening and welcome!
Tonight I am back in the village where I myself was born and brought up - Tobson in Bernera, Isle of Lewis. I have returned to talk to one who has been a merchant/shopkeeper for many years in this village serving the villages on the island and on the "mainland" across the bridge. He is Murdo MacDonald (known locally as Murchadh an Töbh - Murdo of Thule).
First of all, Murdo, when did you first start trading at Thule?
Murdo - In 1928.
Iain - How old were you then?
Murdo - I was 18.
Iain - How long had the shop been at Thule?
Murdo - My grandfather started in a small way in 1882. I suppose he sold only tea, sugar and tobacco. I think my father took over in 1900, or thereabouts, and he dealt in everything possible from oatmeal and flour to needles and anchors • anything that could be sold!
Iain - What difficulties did you have getting supplies delivered?
Murdo - When I was young and my father ran the shop
a steamer name the "Hebrides" came to Miavaig once a
month, and when it was due to arrive sailing boats
- usually two - went across to collect the usually large
cargo coming from Glasgow. The boats were loaded to
the gunwales with meal, sugar, boxes of groceries and
the like using the steamer's derrick, and they sailed back
to Tobson - to a very rocky shore. The crew discharged the cargo and took it on their backs up to the grass, and the sacks of meal did not just weigh 3 1/2 pounds; each one weighed 140 pounds, and the sacks of sugar weighed 2 hundredweights'. When the boats had been emptied, the supplies were then taken up to the shop which was some 200 to 300 yards from the shore, and for all their labour - which lasted all day - the crew got the princely sum of 5 shillings, and they were happy enough with that.
Iain - You then took over the shop, but there was no bridge connecting Bernera with mainland Lewis at that time.
Murdo - No, there was not. We used a boat - a sailing boat, because engines were not in vogue at that time. Sometimes, if there was a flat calm, we rowed; otherwise the sail was hoisted. We sailed to Breasclete because that was the terminus for the vehicles which brought our goods from Stornoway. We loaded the boat and returned to the same rocky spot as we came to when we got our supplies from the steamer at Miavaig, and we had the same carry - on getting the goods up to the shop! It was very difficult. When the road to Earshader was constructed -where the bridge is today - we ourselves got cars. There were buses which delivered our goods to Earshader, and that made the sea - journey shorter. We loaded the boats there and took the goods to the shore. But things improved! First of all, I had a lorry on the Earshader side of the Sound and a small Van on the Bernera side. The lain Murdo lain Murdo lain Murdo lain Murdo lain Murdo lain Murdo lain Murdo goods were ferried across the Sound in a small rowing boat to a slipway where I had a shed where they were stored until I could transport them across the island in my van to Thule. That was how we coped until the bridge was built.
Iain - So the goods went through several stages before they were sold in the shop?
Murdo - Yes, many! First of all, they were stored in a hut at Earshader where they remained until, weather permitting, they were ferried across to the shed on the Bernera side where again they were stored until they were gradually transported in the small van. There were four separate stages, at least, in getting the goods from Stornoway to the shop.
Iain - Was yours the only shop in Bernera at that time?
Murdo - Oh, no! There was another shop in Kirkibost run by one Neil MacLennan ("Niall Alasdair" as he was known), and he had much the same sort of goods as we had ourselves, but the sea journey was easier for him as he was nearer Breasclete. He crossed to the pier at Breasclete, depending on the tide, and took the goods over to a pier near his shop.
Iain - Was his shop near the shore?
Murdo – Yes, as was his house, but the shop was nearer the shore.
Iain - What were the roads through Bernera like coming to your shop on this side of the island?
Murdo - There was nothing except gravel/clay roads until we got the bridge, and these had lots of potholes - and still have! They were poor until the bridge was built, but after a while - a year or two • they were improved.
Iain - What kind of vehicle did you have when you first began taking goods to Thule?
Murdo - What I had on the Earshader side was a large lorry, and that was how I took goods from Stornoway to Earshader. On the Bernera side of the water I had a small Van.
Iain - heard you had a tricycle.
Murdo - At first I had a bicycle which I used to hump sacks of loaves on my back. That was before the bridge or anything like that. The loaves came on the motor launch which delivered the mails. Then I got a motor-cycle and sidecar, and I hauled goods on that. After that I got the small van which enabled me to transport goods when we got a proper road. The road to Tobson was just a footpath, and only a narrow vehicle could run on it; indeed, it was not even safe for that. But a new road to the village was constructed in 1939.
Iain - What sorts of things were transported in those days when you started? (l suppose they would be large sacks - not things like packets of cornflakes!!)
Murdo - You are right. As I have already said, there were bolls (weighing 1401bs) of meal. Later half-bolls (701bs) were available, and these became the more popular. Before I retired bags had reduced in weight to 3.5 lbs. We handled all sorts of goods packets Of this and that, groceries of all kinds, sacks of sugar (sometimes so heavy that they had to be halved). We even had half-barrels of herring. There was a steep brae above where the boat berthed, and these items had to be carried on one's back up the brae. This continued until the road was diverted some years later.
Iain - The roads improved your lot. You got a large vehicle and you travelled to Stornoway. How often did you go?
Murdo - Twice a week with the big van. We brought Our own supplies over, also goods for others-• even prescriptions from the doctor were delivered to the chemist in the morning and collected before returning later in the day. That was part of the service we provided.
Iain - I suppose that took up as much time as your own business?
Murdo- Yes, and sometimes more! When we were buying our own supplies we usually went to one place where we got most of what we needed.
Iain - Looking back now to when you started in the business at the age of 18, how has the village of Tobson changed?
Murdo - Well, there is a shortage of people. When I think back every house was full, usually six persons on average in each. They had lots of fun. People visited and entertained each other, sometimes practising Gaelic Psalm tunes and such like. There was no outside entertainment (e.g. television) then, but there were lots of pastimes. That has all changed.
Iain - How were people in the village employed?
Murdo - Crofting and fishing were the main occupations. Many were involved with sheep and cattle. Cattle were in abundance, but there are very few now. People cultivated the soil, sowing seed, planting potatoes, growing corn and such to provide winter feed for the animals. Lobster fishing was the main fishing activity as far back as I can remember, and lobster fishermen went far out to sea in their small boats which ranged from 15 to 20 feet in length. They reached as far as the Flannan Isles.
Iain - How many boats were there in the village?
Murdo - A lot! Seven or eight at least • of all kinds. There was a boat in every household - two in some.
Iain - Were you lobster - fishing at that time?
Murdo - No - not then, but we had a boat and we went to islands with sheep; The Old Hill, Fladday and Kelsay. The Old Hill was somewhat high - over 100 feet above sea level, and we put 30 sheep there. It was your own grandfather, lain, who taught us how to climb and descend the crags and how to get the sheep up. He would lead the way, and nobody was allowed out of his sight until we were considered proficient. Eventually we were just as proficient as himself - or even the birds for that matter!!
The other two islands were much lower and were fairly easy to negotiate. 30 sheep were put on each. All three islands belonged to Tobson, and every year the sheep were put there in July and taken off around the end of October, weather permitting. One could get to The Old Hill only occasionally. There was another island which belonged to ourselves - Bursay (Buireasaidh) where I put 10 sheep. No sheep are sent to any of these islands now, and I don't know why. Is it because the young people do not care for sheep or, can they not climb the crags?
Lain - Thule, and your own father, had a fair amount of land at one time.
Murdo - Yes, it is a large croft. It is where I was born and brought up - and where I still am. But the village of Croir, which has eight crofts, belonged to my father before people eventually went there. It was a farm where he had 100 or 200 sheep and 100 head of cattle. He sold the lambs at Dingwall at a certain time of the year, also cattle at mainland sales. Sales were not held in Stornoway at the time.
Iain - I don't suppose there was anyone in Bernera who had so many animals at that time?
Murdo - Not at that time, but it was because he had the farm in Croir that he had so many. A croft could not cope with so many sheep or cattie.
Iain - To this day not much peats are cut in Bernera. Was it much the same in your youth?
Murdo - Yes indeed. There was no peat at all in Tobson. It was what was called the "top sod" that was cut and dried for burning, but there was a small area at lonail, near Hacklete, where locals went peat-cutting until the peat was exhausted. They then went to the moorland - to Ard Drobhanais, just above the shore across the Bernera Sound. We went there in boats with a peat-cutting team youngsters and adults, the older ones keeping the young in order. The peats were cut, and we enjoyed a picnic having taken the necessary provisions for the occasion.
When the peats dried the person to whom they belonged lifted them. then stacked them, and they were taken home gradually - a boat load now and again. Most of the peats were cut near the sheep fank, and if there was a "fank day" the opportunity would be seized to take a boat-load home.
Nowadays they go as far afield as Loch Ganvich and along the Uig road to cut peats, and the finished articles are transported by lorry. However, many now use coal instead of peats. Everything is so expensive, and lack of manpower precludes the cutting of peats at such distances.
Iain - Is that the difference the roads have made?
Murdo - Oh, yes. That is the biggest change to this village, but the other villages have ample peat.
lain - You were District Councillor for Bernera for many years. For how long?
Murdo - For 27 years (or more) until the demise of the District Council, when it was replaced by other Local Authorities. We had little power other than making our wishes known to the County Council, and it was up to them whether our wishes were granted or not. Matters were quite different from now. We were responsible to people across the Minch - in Dingwall as we were part of the county of Ross and Cromarty. Perhaps we were - or were not - treated fairly. Personally I don't think we were being treated as fairly as we are now.
Iain - Did that take up much of your time?
Murdo - No! There were meetings normally once a month - unless there was something special to consider - and quite often I happened to be going to Stornoway on that day anyway but, if not, I would have to go specially. There was no remuneration, but in latter years we were paid our expenses. That was all.
Iain - Although you said you were not lobster-fishing in your youth, you did do some of that during the last 20 years.
Murdo - Yes. I started with small boats. I had three, one after the other, 13 to 14 feet long with around 20 creels. I had a good lad from Valasay, Dolly Angus, with me, but, tragically, he died suddenly. Before I lost Dolly, we were coming back from Fladday one stormy day and I said to myself that the boat was too small, so I decided to get a bigger one. I went over to Stornoway and ordered a 20-foot boat with a diesel engine from the local boatbuilders. They built the boat to my specifications, and liked it a lot. I had it until last year when I had to part with it. I could not get a crew, and anyway I was getting too old. I was very sorry to part with it. It went over to Crossbost where it still is - as good as ever.
Iain - Was this more of a pastime than a livelihood?
Murdo - Yes. Boats were in my blood. There was a boat in the household as far back as I can remember, and I was in and out of boats, fly-fishing and the like. That was in my nature. When I began lobster-fishing it was a pastime, and although I was paid a little for the lobsters the price was nothing like what it is now. There is nothing more expensive; probably even more expensive than salmon.
Iain - Although you were only involved in a small way, do you think lobster- fishing would be worthwhile for the rising generation?
Murdo - They have had the opportunity, but they concentrated on it so much and had so many creels that the supply of lobsters has virtually been exhausted. They were going so far out to sea that they seem to have cleaned the sea-bed. But there are still lobsters, although they are not so plentiful. I remember boats having 40 creels, and they might catch 50 lobsters in a morning. Nowadays they have 400 creels, and they catch, perhaps, a dozen. That tells how lobsters have reduced in number - and how prices have increased. I remember when a lobster fetched an old sixpence, and if they were too small two were sold for the price of one. If current day prices had applied then, all lobster-fishermen would have been millionaires!
Iain - I recall you were involved in other fishing. You used to go to sea and come back with "white" fish.
Murdo - Oh, yes! We would sail out to what Bernera people call the Uig Sound (Caolas Uige) - and Uig people call the Bernera Sound (Caolas Bhearnaraigh) - with "small lines", and we caught plenty haddock. The last time I was there with "small lines" I saw no fish. That shows how the sea has been trawled to nonsense.
Iain - Do you miss the boat?
Murdo - Oh yes, I do - and I will always miss it as long as I can walk, but I realised I was too old for it and had to part with it.
Iain - You leave Tobson for a while each year. Why?
Murdo - We go to our family. We have two daughters, and they are down South. We go down to Edinburgh for a month, and sometimes longer, but we yearn for home as Soon as we get there.
Iain - Since it was to have such an impact on your own life, I suppose it must have been a momentous day when the bridge was opened.
Murdo -Yes, indeed. There were many in attendance, and so many buses came with people to witness the event that the road to the bridge on the Earshader side collapsed the road which had just been constructed, but it was mainly constructed of gravel and clay - not like the modern roads. It was so badly damaged that it was closed for some time until it was repaired, and heavy traffic could not come through Earshader. The Bernera side was just as bad because of the heavy vehicles using it, and the road. which was poor anyway, did not last. There were serious debates in the Council about "the Bernera Road", but eventually enough funding was made available to repair it - at least as far as the first village, Breaclete. Since then, parts have been tarred over, and it is better than it was, but it is still pretty poor.
Iain - Do you remember that important day?
Murdo - Oh yes! I was a District Councillor at the time, and I had to deliver a short speech at the end of the bridge (there were plenty speeches!!). My mother was the oldest person on the island at the time, and she cut the tape. She was quite infirm, but my sister took her to the bridge by car, and she fulfilled her duty. We have a photograph of that, also one of the building of the bridge and a book describing how it was built. As far as I know it was the second of its type to be built, and it was the second (if not the first) across the Atlantic.
Iain - Building the bridge was a project which gave employment to some Bernera people.
Murdo - Bernera men built the bridge. Apart from the engineers, one or two joiners and a diver or two, it was Bernera unskilled labour that constructed every beam and everything to do with the bridge from start to finish. There was a lot of work and every able-bodied man in Bernera was employed there.
Iain - When the shop here at Thule was open people from all parts of the world came - and they still come to where the shop was, don't they
Murdo - Well, yes. We have changed it into a self-catering establishment, and people from everywhere - Holland, Germany, Switzerland, England, Canada - come, quite often for a month or two in the summer.
Iain - You have given up the shop. You no longer go lobster-fishing. How do you pass your time?
Murdo - I still have a few sheep. I sold a lot a couple of years ago as I did not see how I could look after them.
I watch television, although I am not sure that it is worth watching; but there is not much else I do other than converse with my neighbours and friends. I am interested in the Church. I am an elder in the Church of Scotland, and I try to give whatever assistance I can there on Sundays and at the Wednesday prayer, meetings. That is all I do now other than sit in a chair passing the time thinking to myself!!
Iain - Thank you Murdo, for letting us come to talk to you.
Murdo -You are welcome, lain.
.
Mary Ann and Bean Dolligan Macdonald of 4 Earshader interviewed by Elizabeth Macleod, 3 Crulivig
MA - There was a veil, it was Seonag's sister in Tobson - Mary, wife of Seonnie Tompson -that's who had it, and it was worn by two or three people.
E - Yes, I'm Sure they had to.
Ma - Yes, it was worn by Seonag and believe somebody from Uig and I had it, I think that veil was used by at least four. At that time everything was on coupons and, had it not been for people being. you know, neighbourly and giving you coupons for what you needed, you wouldn't manage. You know the things that you got as they say today. the ‘going away outfit' -it was through other people's coupons and saving coupons that they managed to do that and the food was the same
E - Did you have somebody preparing food so that it was ready for everybody here?
MA - Everybody these days used to kill animals, and they had chickens, we had our own meat, we had sheep and our own meat but now with bakery and things that - you took that from Stornoway and it was just prepared like that, Yes, but you needed coupons for that well
The food coupons, I can't remember now how many coupons you need for a bride's cake, and everyone gave you a coupon here and there.
E - Did you have a bride's cake?
MA - Yes. but that was how we got it. Yes, we got it from Hugh Matheson. And it was from Chirsty Ann from Breaclete who ordered everything; all the pastries and all these things. She ordered all that.
E - Chirsty Ann Doghan?
MA - Chirsty Ann Doghan, She had been away cooking, so she had a good idea what was needed and she had experience of weddings. And we weren't short of anything -she had ordered plenty. She is still like that.
E - She is still like that.
MA - Yes, I've always remembered how well she ordered everything.
E - Was it a nice day?
MA - Yes. it was a winter's day, 4"' December. It was a good day, and it wasn't a bad night, but it got wild in the morning, but it wasn't a bad night at all.
E - Say now if it had been a bad day and you wouldn't have crossed in the boat -would everything have been cancelled?
MA - Yes. I'm sure it would have to be I'm sure it would have to be. I don't think that happened here to us, it didn't happen in our generation that they couldn't cross over.
But there were a lot who got married in the schoolhouse In Crulivig. Oyhrig Ruadh from Caolar na Speile, it was in the schoolhouse that she was married. Now Mairead from up there, it was in Stornoway that she got married, and it was in Stornoway that Mor married. I don't know why we didn't go to Stornoway, unless it was Norman. Dolligan's brother was at home, if that was why we got married in Bernera. And my father wasn't fit at the time, he wasn't well. My father did go though, my mother couldn't; she was confined to her bed. But she did get up. like I said, in the evening.
E - It was a big day then.
MA - Oh yes, yes. You know house weddings -they could go on for a whole week. They would be on from Monday until the end of the week. It was usually a Wednesday or a Thursday but the preparations started on Monday -with killing chickens, cooking and preparing food, all those things yes.
E - Where did you have your photograph taken? In Stornoway?
MA - In Stornoway, at MacLaughlin -a week after we were married, and it was in the studio that I put the clothes on, in a room there. You couldn't get a photographer then -think that's why people went to Stornoway. you know. unless you had a camera yourself, or somebody at the wedding had one, you were stuck like that -you had to go some other time.
E - Was there anybody who could have taken a picture on your wedding day?
MA - No, nobody had a camera to take a picture -I think it is because they couldn't take us that day -it was something like that, because people started going over after being married in Bernera -I think that is why.
E - Yes, it was the same with my mother. It was a week or a fortnight after the wedding that the photographs were taken.
MA - Yes, yes. that was just the way it was You had to make an appointment beforehand and I think we were too late or something but it was done within a week anyway
E - Did you like being here after being in Tobson?
D - No, they had to catch me, once or twice, down there.
E - Running away?
D - Yes. going home!!
MA - Oh, the dogs couldn't chase him home!
E - Just like myself-seeing Bernera before me, When did Calum Gobha Start with the bus here?
MA - He started the year the road was opened, that would be 1932 -the road opened in the spring and he got a bus in the summer or thereabout. The road broke we were just talking about that the other day. The road broke the day it opened part of it. You know, it was clay and gravel without much foundation apart from a few places, and where there were bogs, it sank with the cars with the weight. It was closed then and people started working on it. It was promised that those who did the most work on it for nothing -that they would get the work on it when it opened. A crowd of men from Bernera and Uig went to work on it -but if they did, they got nothing for it. No, they didn't get any more work from it, but the road was improved then. and Calum got his bus in the summer, Himself and Neil got them around the same time, a bus each the following summer, just at the time the road was finished for the second time. But the road did not come past Coinneach lain' s house -just where the passing place is there,
E - So there were two buses on the go?
MA - Yes. there were two buses Yes. and then. I don't know if they ran out of money or what, but it was after the road was opened that this section of road in here was completed -down to the shore at Ard a Chaolais.
D - Oh, I think Neil came to Linshader for a long while.
MA - Yes, when the road was closed here, he took the bus to Linshader, taking the boat to Linshader with the passengers.
E - Is that what he used to do?
MA - Yes, he had a boat then, a big one. and he took the people to Linshader if the day was suitable, and from there to Stornoway, and returning in the afternoon, taking the boat back again.
E - Everything was more difficult then, compared to today
MA - Oh yes, it was difficult. Yes, it's a wonder they were alive at all.
E - And at the same time they didn't think anything of it.
MA - No, they didn't think of it at all. they thought that it was really good at the time to get there, instead of having nothing at all.
E - Today we can just lift the phone, and the car is outside the door
MA - Yes, the car is at the door. Yes. but then it was seen as a great advantage even to get to Linshader itself. They even took the wool home from the fanks on the moor -on their backs. The people here, our forefathers, my father and mother and everybody else from the village used to walk with the wool. And Domhnall Iain Alasdair from Linshader started taking a horse and cart to the fank, and the wool was put on the cart there and he took it to Linshader, and then they took a boat the next day or when the weather was suitable, to collect the wool from Linshader. They saw that as being a luxury. A penny for a fleece.
E - For one fleece?
MA - that was his pay. A penny for each fleece -that was what you paid. Say if you had twenty fleeces, and there would not be many with more than that then.
E - that would be four shillings?
MA - Four shillings, but it was seen as a real luxury, instead of having to take it on your back over five miles. Think of it - men going gathering to Loch Langavat and Glen Sandwick and at Morgail. Coming back to the fank - doing their day's work shearing there, and then coming home with the wool on their back - both the men and the women. And then they thought of that - same as you would hire a car today - hiring Domhnall lain Alasdair and taking the wool there - a penny a fleece
E - I said four shillings, but it wouldn't be that.
MA - Yes. Calum up there. he walked from here -I don't think there is anybody else alive today, apart from Calum an Lunda:e -because once the cars and the buses came, they would run them out Calun Gobha would run them out to the bridge at Kinloch for the gathering on the hill, and that was quite something -because they used to leave here on foot, reaching there and coming back. What stamina they must have had.
E - Indeed.
MA - Yes indeed. I say, it is little wonder he is complaining of his bones today, the work that people did then. They complain today when they can take their cars to the fank Or halfway there. And they didn't have fences then on the hill -you had to gather high and low.
E - Was the day of the fank a big day?
MA - Oh yes. In those days so many people went to the fank - we made tea on a hillock just outside the fank (Faing na Beannan), and it was like you might have a party today.
E - Did you take your food and prepare it outside?
MA - Yes, preparing the food out there -making a fire, everybody sharing together, and it was just like I said, as if you were going to a picnic. A picnic on the hillock out there, everybody took scones. crowdie and cream, pancakes and everything. just like a picnic, sharing. The gatherers had tea before they started the shearing and everything was so jolly that you didn't feel like you were working. Yes, everybody together -some people came from Uig too, and Bernera people, everybody together. You can hardly tell if there is a fank these days.
E - And everybody was happy together.
MA - Yes, everybody was happy together, and you saw such a lot of people that you hadn't seen all year apart from there.
E - Did they do much fishing there?
MA - Oh, no, no, they would be fishing with a line from the rowing boats in the stream down there and cuddy fishing, but they didn't have fishing boats like they did in Bernera They had rowing boats for their own uses -yes, going to places and for ferrying -like going to church. Just about everybody had a boat for that -you needed that anyway, I remember one time the weather being so bad one winter, before the war started, and we took six weeks before anyone from this side went to church
E - It was as bad as that?
MA - Yes, you couldn't get across and maybe if you got across you couldn't get back, so they didn't chance it, and it took six weeks -oh it was bad weather and nobody crossed over. They used to keep a service in the schoolhouse then, each church in turn, in the evenings. We would go to church in the mornings and then in the evenings the service would be in the schoolhouse. Each church in turn, a Sunday each, and sometimes a weekday service was held there?
E- Who held the services?
MA - It was, as I remember, Rev Morrison in the Free Church and Duncan Matheson was the minister of the Church of Scotland, an uncle of Seonnie a' Mhorghan's wife. They were both from Lochs. and it was their elders who most often held the services. lain Aonghas Iain Bhain„ 'Donal' as we said, from Hacklete, Domhnall Seoras' grandfather he used to come over for the Free Church, nearly every night they held the service. And most often it was 'Noah' as he was known, Calum Iain Neil. an uncle of Neil Iain in Kirkibost. That was the elder from the Church of Scotland. Now sometimes Spung, Murthadh Stodie -and Iain Beag, Enag's father. He came across from the Church of Scotland -and lain MacNaughton. But these first two -they were on standby all the time -you were certain of these two -they were there on alternate Sabbaths
E - So if they couldn't get to Bernera, a service was always held?
MA - Yes, they came across in the evening, with the ones coming over from the church service and had their dinner in somebody's house on this side, and after the night time service my father would ferry them back with his boat. Now Iain Aonghais lain Bhain was an old man, and on a good night he was taken to the end of he road there, and on a bad night he was taken to the quay, and he walked from there to Rubha Roshaire in Hacklete.
E - Up Cleitear?
MA - Up Cleitear, through dark winter nights, and on a good night he was taken to the quay at Hacklete, and Calum lain Neil, Noah, he was taken to the end of the road in bad weather and walking from there to Neil Iain's house, and on a good night he was taken to Bun a Gharradh -you know the wall opposite at Mairead Neil's house.
E - Garradh an Dotair.
MA - Garradh an Dotair. he was taken there, he was ferried there. That was the routine. They came here after church, had a cup of tea, and then my father and Calum Aonghas Duinn or Seonnie Mhurchadh, Murdinag's uncle, would ferry them across. And they must have been sixty as I remember them today they must have been over sixty and they did that every alternate Sabbath. Now Seumas' father, Domhnall Mhic Kensey, he came across to do the Singmg along with Noah, and it was Aonghas Na Chirsty who did the singing for Douai, for Iain Aonghas Iain Bhain, he could present and he did the singing for him and Domhnall Mhic Kensey would come across on a good night from the ‘leathad' (slope) over there, to the ' Aird' there. The nights Domhnall was across Noah got home with him, but the nights when he wasn't it was Aonghas Na Chirsty who presented for both churches, an Doghan sometimes -Doghan wasn't keen to do it, he was somewhat shy, and Aonghas sometimes sang for both sides. The schoolhouse was full then. All the young folk here went. they all went. young and old, No matter what denomination it was, everybody went, and these old men used to give out a text. just like a missionary, and everybody was just as happy with them. Like I said, everybody, young and old, went. Yes, from the two churches, to the schoolhouse there. Yes, there were services in the schoolhouse while it was still a school. Yes and at communion times there would be a minister on Thursday, Friday and Sunday night it was the Church of Scotland on Thursday and Saturday nights and the Free Church on Friday and Sunday nights -but if there was a missionary he came over on a Saturday night for the Church of Scotland. and if not it was a minister -that is one of the ministers attending the communion services. At that time there were two ministers in both churches, they came on a Wednesday afternoon and left on a Monday afternoon -that is how they attended here. Everything was so difficult. and all the boats were full going across to church in the morning. Tormod Domhnall Bhain had a boat and most often the Crulivig people would go across on his boat, unless there was somebody he couldn't take, and we had a boat here. Now once Tormod' s boat stopped, they came here and my father would often ferry across -two or three times on a Sabbath morning, with the amount of people.
E - Would Bernera people ever come across here to church?
MA - Yes, at communion times.
E - Just at communion times?
MA - Yes, at communion times. There would be visitors with the ministers sometimes, but nobody from the congregation coming with them. Now if there was a minister they liked then the visitors would come over with them - now sometimes they would stay on this side or return to Bernera. A lot of people would come across at communion times. Once the ferry started - now Suilie used to ferry at the communions and my father had his boat and there would be two or three crossings - a lot of people came then. Calum Gobha's bus (because Neil had stopped by then) would be taking visitors at the communions back to Stornoway on Monday afternoon, they had no cars. They came by bus and went back by bus on Monday. They waited in the houses until the bus came, on the Monday after communions here you could hardly move for people. Coming into the house, you didn't know who was there, and making tea. the houses were too small. And they would go up to the houses up there, the houses were all full.
E - Did Calum Gobha go to Uig with his bus? Or just between here and Stornoway?
MA - Oh. just between here and Stornoway He went to Uig at communions -he went up every communion Sunday to Uig, and you couldn't get standing room in it - unless you booked your seat at the beginning of the week you couldn't get on. He would go up on a Friday and take people that wanted to go, but on a Sunday the bus was packed full. Before the bus started, the Uig boat came from Uig on a Friday and a Sunday to take people from Bernera to the Uig communions. It was Domhnall Iain Seonaid and Murchadh Calum Mor from Uigen who were the crew of the boat. The boat belonged to both of them. They came on a Friday morning and would come back on Friday night with anyone who wanted back, and then on Sunday morning, and coming back on Sunday night and the boat was full. When the buses started that stopped. Now that boat came with Dr Grant. It came With the doctor every Wednesday. Sometimes he came ashore in Hacklete at Domhnall Calum Madson 's house, he walked around Bernera on foot until the boat returned to collect him. Other days, depending on where he wanted to go, they came to the end of the road with him and he walked around Bernera from there and they would collect him there again in the afternoon. He walked the length and breadth of Bernera. I think he had a room in the nurses cottage where Ian is today.
E - Where Heath House is today
MA - Yes, where Heath House is today. I think he had a small room, it belonged to the nurse. At that time they had srnallpox vaccination and it was there that the mothers took their children for vaccination -that's all there was -there was no word of whooping cough or any of these other injections then. But people didn't attend a surgery or anything like that.
E - there was no surgery held then?
MA - Oh no, nothing but sending word of anybody who was sick, to be visited at home, and the nurse would tell him if he was needed anywhere. It was just like that. Now when the road opened, he got a car and he would leave it in the passing place out there and go across on the ferry, until he came back at night.
E - It must have been different, once the bridge was opened.
MA - Oh yes, it very different indeed. It was so amazing to get over and back on foot. I said -if a picture had been taken before the bridge was opened -the day before the bridge was opened -the engineer working on the bridge had a car and he went across the bridge with his wife and their small girl called Elizabeth -who was the same age as our Peggy -and our Peggy. He took them across the bridge in his car and they went for a trip around Bernera. She was four and a half years old and I was so disappointed not to have a picture of that day. They were in the first car -the bridge wasn't opened yet but he took them -he had permission, being the engineer there
E - Peggy can say she was in the first car over the bridge.
MA - She was in the first car over the bridge.
E - Can she remember it?
MA - She has some memory of it -not much -just of being in the car. Doligan was the first man across the bridge with an animal, he went over and the cow swam across, and he came back walking the cow over.
E - ,The cow walking over the bridge?
MA - Yes, the bridge was not completed then. She swam over but they thought coming back that she could jump over the planks at the end of the bridge and he came across with the cow. But Peggy was in the first car to cross over With Mr Eadie. Mr Eadie was the name of the engineer who took his wife and the two little girls across.
E - Where you here the day the bridge was opened?
MA - Yes, I was down there. Where there many people? Oh yes, a large crowd. I saw a picture of it -Ishbel the daughter Of Calum (Doligan's brother) had it -of Murchadh an Tobha's mother opening the bridge, She has a picture of her with Roddy Smith. the provost of Stornoway then, cutting the ribbon. I saw that last year, I hadn't seen it until then. Yes, she had that picture.
E - Were there a lot of pictures taken that day?
MA: - Yes, a lot of pictures were taken. I wonder if any of them are around here, I don't know. Domhnall an Loch took lots of pictures -I don't know if Nora knows where any of them are.
E - That would be good to see.
MA - Yes, Other people took picture but I know he had a lot of them.
E - You wouldn't see so many people then after it was opened?
MA - Oh no
E - Nobody stopped?
MA - Nobody stopped then. It was like the new road here, it took all the traffic away from us. We used to see so many people then, and many's a night they couldn't get across the Caolas.
E - Did they spend the night here?
MA - Yes. they'd spend the night here. Neil took four consecutive nights here. and couldn't get over. It was so wild they couldn't come over to collect him. There were two nights he was on his own, he didn't have any passengers, and there were two other nights - it was in the same week -and Murchadh an Thule, Iain Aonghas lain Ruidh, Peggy Matheson and Tuns' wife. these four were here. And there was another night, though not that same week. and Mary Smith (who is with your auntie in Stornoway) was here with another woman, I can't remember who. That was in the same week, and he was here two nights on his own because of the bad weather and gales.
E - You couldn't know who was going to come in.
MA - Oh, you didn't know who was going to appear. You just had to be prepared but things were different then and people weren't as posh as they are now. Everybody was the same and they accepted you as you were. If you had food that's all you thought of - if you had food.
E - Food and a bed.
MA - Food and a bed, even if they were on the floor they wouldn't have minded as long as they were out of the cold, that's all that mattered, they were contented enough that way.
E - Do you remember when you were younger, how did you spend your evenings? Did you have stories, things like that?
MA – Yes, stories. the old people would tell us stones -talking about fishing and when they were away at work. I think today and the stories they had to tell. There was a man beside us here, Seoras An Gobha, on the croft that Calum Aonghas an Duinn came to, he was a first cousin of his mother, they came from Cul Choduinn and they came, as they used to do then, if there was two on the same croft and if they were related. they would send word to them to come and look after you if you weren't fit or old, and they would take in a family -and that is how they came and that Seoras had the most amazing stories. I remember him telling us the Story of ‘the Three Bears' and 'Cinderella', and children's stories like that.
E – That was the first time you heard them?
MA - Yes, and it was like watching the television today. you were entranced listening to him. You know, when he said the big bear, the wee bear and the middle sized bear, all in Gaelic and all so eloquent, as if he had reading a book n. and all these things and history, the history of the place.
E – That would be good.
MA - Oh yes. I say that -despite the times he lived in. he was very knowledgeable. He gave the songs of Seonnie Phadrig, that were put in ‘Bardachd Leodhais' from memory -he didn't have any written down.
E - He had them all in his head?
MA - Every one in his head! And that was no small task; they were all long songs, pages or them, and he knew them all.
E - What a memory he had.
MA - But there was one song that was written and that one was lost -'a Song to the West' (Orain an Ard an lar) -it was lost after Seonnie's they were clearing out the chest where he kept his writings and other belongings. My father asked Seoras if he knew the song. 'Yes,' he said. (he hadn't given it along with the other songs). ‘It is a big loss if that song is lost, he never wrote one like it.'
'Do you know it yourself, Seoras?' he asked.
'Yes.'
'Why don't you tell me it, and I can write it down and understand it.
' Another time,' he said.
That song went to the grave with Seoras
E - He never told it.
MA - He never gave it, why ever not. I don't know. But he had everything like that, in his memory. If they were alive today, the stories he had about everything. They had no education as such, just natural gifts.
One thing that wasn't here - the sheilings They had stopped going to the sheilings when I grew up. The one time I slept in a sheiling it was with Christy An Doghan.
E - The two of you?
MA - She had been on a sheiling for a summer or two. and the summer I left school, I went to the sheiling, just to see what it was like. She asked me to go and I was delighted. I was one night with her in the sheiling and it was so strange and unusual.
E - Were you afraid?
MA - Oh no, she was with me and Murdolag was sleeping with her.
E - They were so used to it.
MA - They were used to it. You weren't frightened of anybody then -even though some people would be around the sheilings, they wouldn't bother you. You know. some boys would be around the sheilings. in good hearted fun. but nobody was scared of anybody. You knew nobody would harm you.
E - Did you hear stories that frightened you?
MA - Oh yes, stories about Mac an t-Stronnaich and such like, that frightened you. Lots of things like that, but I think that was so that you didn't go out at night when you were young.
E - Not to go near the Loch.
MA - Yes, not to go near the Loch in case the washer woman -whoever she was -was at the side of the Loch. Oh I rememberer coming from Crulivig and we were frightened, hearing that the washer woman had been seen at Bun na h- aibline. It scared the life out of me, coming from Crulivig I kept my eyes shut in case I saw her! Not knowing who she was, But that was just to keep us away from the river and the loch. Nobody knows who the washer woman was -nothing but something to frighten the children away from the sea and things like that.
E - Yes, we were told that too.
MA - Now, the sea horse lived under the sea.
E - Yes, we always heard that
MA – Yes, the sea horse lived in the sea and he's be at the shore when the tide was in. and coming ashore, you were really frightened. You could see it in your imagination .
E - And hear it behind you,
MA - Indeed, it was always behind you, coming after you.
E - A lot of people would ceilidh then?
MA - Yes, every night. every night a ceilidh. Some houses more so than others that we would ceilidh at. Like ‘tigh na h-airde' we would go there, and go to the shed. everybody gathered there. You would just go and see who was there. And tigh Doghan was another house on this side until they went to Garynahine, young girls and the lads would gather there, even if all you did was look around and see who was there -and just walking down the road -once the road was built, we would be out on the road.
E - They were pleased to see you anywhere.
MA - Yes, just out to see who was there and what was doing. There was nothing else. We would gather where the phone box is today -all the young folk before the war. After the war started, all that stopped.
E - Were you just talking?
MA - Oh yes, talking and laughing amongst ourselves. Yes, you could be sure to see somebody at tigh Doghan blinding each other with torches.
E - And there's nothing like that today
MA - Oh no, nothing like that. but you had to be in at eleven p.m., or watch out!!
E - They were very strict?
MA - Oh yes. They would be shouting 'Eleven p.m. and no later than that' and you were watching out for eleven o' clock.
E - Were you always in by eleven?
MA - Yes, always by eleven p.m. And we could tell the time when we were hanging around the road -lain na Buail Ur (New park) and the girls there, and the Dan family. Peggy, Seoras and Calum. just our own crowd. school friends - waiting to see who we could see on the road and we could tell the time by the buses -nobody had a watch. You know when the bus came around eight o' clock. after that if there were any windows we would be peeping to try and see a clock. That's how we did it. But this 'eleven o' clock' -they were very strict about that.
E - If you broke the rules?
MA - You wouldn't be allowed Out the next night; you were kept in, But it was the same for everybody.
E - You didn't feel so bad then?
MA - Oh no. everybody was the same, nobody got off with it. But all that went at the start of the war, the people left then
E - Do you remember how you heard the war was starting?
MA - Oh yes. very well. It was the Sunday of the Uig communions. and Calum Gobha's bus went to Uig with everybody from here and Bernera. My father and I went. Nobody had a wireless, but people were expecting it. Anyway, after the service we went to Uigen, to the Gobha s house -that was my father's sister -Katie's mother -Calum's wife . and they had a wireless there. When we went in, the ‘Beadan' was there, Katie's brother, and he greeted us by saying 'the War has started. '
Everybody asked when.
'It started at eleven o' clock today, war was declared. '
Then everybody was sad.
We went to church anyway, but the service wasn't long -we were back here by eight o' clock. At that time it was six o' clock, in May, but everything was disrupted. just a quick service and we were back here by eight o' clock, And when we came back, my mother said that Aonghas Tharmoid Chalum had to be in with the mail, with call up papers -the ones that hadn't come on Saturday the post office put the mail cars out with them. He was on the post here, the mail came from the Callanish Post Office and came on the ferry there. lain Domhnall an Taylor met it at the quay for the Bernera papers and from there it went to Uig. That is the memory I have of how I started, I was just seventeen.
E – Seventeen?
MA – Yes,
E - It must have been very frightening.
MA - Yes, very frightening. very frightening. I remember one plane that went past: everybody was alarmed. Now, right enough a German plane did pass over here. I don't know if it was the same one. That autumn the War started, but it was said that a German plane went past -but that is the only plane I remember going past here.
E - Did you see it yourself?
MA - Yes. but it wasn't close enough to identify. but it went over Uig and it was close enough there for the Uig people to see the German mark on it. But that is the only one I remember seeing.
E - Nothing else bothered you after that?
MA - No, nothing else. We had the blackout; otherwise we were unaffected. We had mines, up there in Torinish, and another in Hacklete, and men from Stornoway came from Stornoway to explode them but nothing else ever came near us. The one in Torrinish. it was Margaret Ann na h-airde, her father in law and Domhnall Calum Madson, they were in the squad, there were at least a few of them but they were the only Gaels, the other two were Lowlanders stationed in Stornoway at that time. They came over to explode it.
E - Did you know they were doing that at the time?
MA - Yes. They had a cup of tea here on their way over, and we knew it had come ashore. Someone found it and they had sent word to Stornoway, and they came and had a cup of tea when they returned after defusing them, and making them safe.
E - Did you go and have a look,
MA - Oh no.
E - I'm just thinking of children, they would be wanting to see what was going on.
MA - Well I suppose. but we were all so frightened and there was only Murdinag - that family - they were the only family in the village with children then. She was just two years old when the War started.
E - She won't remember then.
MA - No, and the rest of them were just going to school, and the girls were going to school in Crulivig then.
E - I suppose you're tired now and need a rest
Niall Iain and Domhnall Sgaire discussing lobster fishing when they were young with an unknown interviewer.
Lobster fishermen of Bernera
DZ: There were nineteen when I first started - I went out with Murchadh Scoddy, a boat with a sail, nothing in it but what it had been like for a hundred years - with a sail, oars - the seagull outboard had come then but that was no use but for a day with no wind, you didn't have to row, and there was nowhere for you to sleep, you just lay down between the boat ribs (pause on tape) wake up and the back of your head was shorn. (tape missing) talking about going fishing at night.
Ni: That would be nothing, but going out in the boat, lifting creels and coming back, but I was, like Donald was saying, in a boat with a sail - yes, going up as far as Loch Hamhaway and Loch Raesort for the lobster with the 'firepot' on the ballast.
Q: What pot was this now?
NI: A pot, a good sized one, three legged.
Q: It would be cast iron?
NI: Cast iron, and we would make holes in the bottom so that the air could get into the fire. The pot would be on the ballast with a chain around it so it wouldn't move.
Q: It wasn't just for heat, it was also for cooking?
NI: For cooking - if you caught a crab, the crab would be roasted in the pot there.
Q: Was it always the same person who did the cooking on these vessels?
NI: Well, if there was somebody better at it than any else. he was left in charge of it - most often, but I remember one dinner I had and it wasn't very pleasant I suppose it's not everybody who could eat it, but hunger can make you eat anything, salt herring as it came out of the barrel, unwashed with the salt still on it; the potatoes just as they came out of the earth, unwashed and put in the same pot. Boiled in the same pot and then when it was cooked, you put the herring on a peat - there were no plates - and you ate as best you could with the earth and salt grains crunching under your teeth with the potatoes and herring!
Q: But that wasn't very tasty! People weren't… well, hygiene didn't matter then.
NI: Oh, I don't think they knew what the word meant then! I think that came in with the common market!
Q: Did you do much cooking?
NI: Oh, very little! I was around the 'firepot' in the boat, in the sail boat. but oh - I didn't do much cooking - they didn't do much cooking then anyway. They were doing a lot of cooking latterly in the boats, we would be getting crabs – I remember putting a crab in the firepot and roasting them there. There were some old men – the old men I remember – if you brought them a crab, they wouldn’t take it anyway but roasted in the fire.
Q: When you were away for a day or two, what food did you have? What did you have for breakfast?
NI: Oh, brose and treacle.
Q: Taking it in a bowl?
NI: Yes, and that's the bowl you also had for your tea - there was no cup on board, nothing but one bowl, that's all the dishes there were on board. You took brose with treacle in the morning, then put it over the side. washing it in sea water, and then putting tea in it. You didn't have a towel to dry it either! When it came ashore at the end of the season, it was very brown - from the tea.
Q: You said earlier that you slept aboard, maybe under the boat ribs.
NI: Oh yes, when we were going up around Loch Hamhaway and thereabouts down to Bragar, out for a few days.
Q: That would be very cold. It wouldn't be a very comfortable sleep, would it?
NI: Oh no, you slept with your clothes and Wellingtons. on - if you took your Wellingtons off, your feet were frozen in the morning when you woke. You just lay down between two ribs, taking a nap as best you could.
Q; Who built these boats? Was it somebody from here?
NI: Yes, yes, there was one or two from here …. there was Scoddy from up the village there, he built a lot of boats - they were all over the island, all over Lewis, down to Shawbost. Ness and everywhere, and they built them themselves. There was another, lain Tharmoid, he also built boats
Q: Now, if your fire was going for three days, you needed peat.
NI: Oh yes. we had peat - there was always a bag or two in the front ready to go in the pot.
Q: Did you have anything when you went down to Bragar, Shawbost …. did you have a compass or anything like that on board?
NI: Oh yes, we had a compass on board all right.
Q: What happened if the bad weather came, did the ones at home know where you were or anything?
Both: Oh, they didn't know where we were until we returned.
NI: They would know whether it was east or west that we turned going out of the mouth of the loch. They didn't know until our return just how far we got or anything. It's not like that today with VHF and wireless - there was nothing like that.
Q: The ones at home must have been nearly out of their minds in bad weather.
NI: Yes, if we were late returning. Oh yes, there were some who went to the Flannan Isles, who took a long time to come back - they had given up hope for them in Tobson there but they turned up in Bragar.
Q: When you went out. was it around the same place you set the creels. Did you have fishing grounds where you knew you would catch them?
NI: It was near to the shore that we always worked then, we did very little away from the shore at all, we worked the shore all the time - down all the way from here to the Butt and down to Scarp there. But when the big boats came we worked further out away from the shore - different from the way they worked then.
Q: You said when you first started you worked at night. Now you didn't keep on working at night?
NI: No.
Q: Why not?
NI: Ah. I don't know.
Q: Did you think you'd catch more at night?
NI: Well, more creels are worked, and the creels are fishing all night - you let the creels fish all night and lift them in the morning that's what is mostly done today.
Q: On that boat, the first one you spoke about, how many creels would you have?
NI: Ten.
DZ: Ten creels each. There would be three or four on the boat and ten creels each. That's how many creels. That's all the boats could take - you could only take as many as would fit below deck, otherwise they would be in the way when the boat was under sail.
Q: Was it usually one lobster you'd catch in a creel, or was the creel big enough for two or three?
DZ: Oh yes - there would sometimes be two, three. four and sometimes five. But the lobsters were so plentiful that they almost came ashore, unlike what they are today.
Q: Say, when you lifted the creels with two or three together, were there any signs of them fighting each other?
NI: Oh yes. And it was rarely five. There were plenty with three, four often and five very rarely.
Q: What sort of damage could they do to each other? Would they take the claws off each other?
NI: Oh yes – if there was a big one in with a small one - he might have cut him in two or something like that, in the creel - if they were there a long time. If there were three or four in a creel - the creels they had then were not as big as the ones they have today at all and they didn't have the same space to move. Maybe one could damage another; a big one could take the claws off a smaller one, anything like that.
Q: Now it is said that if a lobster loses a leg it will grow back.
NI: Oh it will grow back, any part of his body will grow again. But you can tell that a missing bit is growing back - it doesn't have the same colour of the rest of the shell either.
Q: Do you think it is as strong?
NI: Oh yes. just as strong. The shell grows back as before.
Q: What bait did you have most often?
NI: It was salt mackerel we had, more or less for as long as I can remember. When I was a boy they set short lines (luoin beag) and caught the bait themselves, with flounder - or anything else they caught on the hook - but it was mackerel - we took mackerel over from Stornoway and salted it; that’s the bait we had. Filling barrels when it was the mackerel season.
Q: The stronger the smell the better.
NI: Well, I suppose it was just as good.
Q: To attract them to it.
NI: Yes - but it is new bait they have today - most of them. But there is crab today - we didn't get much and only threw it overboard, there was no market for it.
Q: Were there ever crabs in the creels with the lobster?
DZ: Oh yes, you often got a crab with a lobster. At the start of the autumn when the crab is plentiful, quite often when you lifted the afternoon creels, it was mostly crab in them. You'd clean the crabs out and when you went to lift them again through the night - it was lobster in them with a few crabs.
Q: It is said it is important what colour the creel is. It's no use too bright, that the lobster is more comfortable going in somewhere dark.
NI: Well all creels are dark, and as I said before - it was during the night that they used to fish for lobster here - well the creels fish for lobster through the night, nowadays just the same, although they don't lift them.
Q: Is the lobster an intelligent fish? You know some people say it is Ilke the rat he is very careful where he goes, he' look around since the creel is a trap. Some say he is very cautious.
DZ: He is,
NI: When I was working out at the lobster pond out here; that is when I noticed that. They would take a while, sometimes a long time, going around before they would go in at all. As if they were checking to see whether it was safe to go In.
Q: Was the lobster more plentiful when you started, compared to how they are today?
DZ: Oh my, yes, much more plentiful. There weren't as many fishing them then as today.
NI: It was mostly after the war that we started, and during the war years they weren't fished at all and therefore there were more of them, since nobody was fishing them over the six years of the war.
Q: What weight was the biggest you ever caught?
NI: I don't know.
DZ: 10.5 lbs was the heaviest - but he hadn't got into the creel, he couldn't get in.
Q: You saw it but didn't catch it.
DZ: Oh, we caught it.
Q: How?
DZ: One of his claws had gone inside the door and was stuck and he was holding onto the side of the creel with his other claw - that's the way he came on board. And that was inside the loch here.
Q: Did you lose a lot of creels in the bad weather?
Both: Yes, yes, we lost a lot.
NI: As I told you, we worked by the shore all the time.
Q: And that was worse?
NI: Oh, you know the way they are today, they have better methods but if you are working by the shore and you leave the creels - if a storm comes, you can say you've lost them.
Q: Were there any days you lost all you had?
NI: Well, we never lost them all but we came close to it - in one night.
Q: Then you'd have to start again. Did you make them yourselves?
Both: Oh yes, yes then, everyone.
DZ: Then it was creels with wooden bottoms and copper rings - you know the rings that used to go on the barrels - that's the rings they were made of. Nowadays they have iron creels - but then we made all our own creels - usually in the winter when the weather was bad and we couldn’t work.
Q: Was that the only thing that kept you from working? Did they have a season of such - times of the year that it wasn't worth going out?
NI: Oh yes, sometimes are better than others. In the autumn the lobster is hungrier and you catch more of them than say, in the spring. We got a few in spring when the price was better because they were scarce. In the autumn they were plentiful, but the price was not as good.
Q: What time of year do they shed their shell?
DZ: Most often in the summer, when it is warm; it is then that most of them shed their shell. You see the occasional ones in autumn with a soft shell.
Q: There would be no use taking that one to market?
Both: Oh no.
DZ: You'd have to let it go; it wouldn't live.
Q: Now there's a question: how long can a lobster live out of water?
DZ: Oh I don't know.
NI: It would be a good while.
DZ: It would be a good while, especially at the time of year when it is cold.
NI: Yes, a week.
DZ: Yes, a week, I suppose.
NI: Yes, yes, at this time of year when it is cold and the lobster is good and firm, if he was on the deck there and had something to cover him from the sun - I'd say he'd be alive for about a week.
Q: When you caught a lot of lobster and came back with them, where did you keep them until they got to market?
NI: From when I can remember, they had wooden cages for putting them in and keeping them. They didn’t keep them for very long - from Saturday until they were sent to Billingsgate on Monday morning.
Q: They didn't need to be fed then?
NI: No.
Q: What did the people before you do? Where did they keep them?
NI: They made a little pond at the shore. putting a 'deck' on it and putting them in there. They made them as low as they could, dependant on the tides - putting a 'deck' on and keeping them there. They kept them there so they could get a better market for them in the warm weather and again around this time or Christmas and New Year and through the winter.
Q: On the day that they were sent to Billingsgate, was it in boxes that they were?
Both: Yes.
Q: Was there anything in the boxes with the lobster; was there sawdust or anything?
NI: Yes, they put sawdust in them, and fern and corn or something like that to keep them firm. Sawdust was often used. They thought it was very good - yes, I've seen corn going in - and even seaweed. I don't know if seaweed was good or not. It was corn or something like that they used, to keep them.
Q: When they reached Billingsgate, sometimes a few were dead.
DZ: Oh yes, some were dead. A telegram would come to tell - sometimes they were all dead. It is said that there is one old man in Bernera who worked alone with a boat. and like that, he sent lobsters to Billingsgate and he get’s a telegram that they were dead. This time, it is said, he sent them off cooked. His son lived in the house with him. but he wasn't on the boat with him. This day a telegram came, and it was his son who opened it - and he was always teasing the old man. He asked him - what did it say? 'All dead,' said the boy. 'Oh shoot! After spending all week cooking them!'
Q: When you got the telegram, was it easy to believe it was true - did you have any proof that it was true?
DZ: Oh no, you had to accept what you got.
Q: Who knows then?
NI: Sometimes there as a blue note from the inspector at the market, that they were dead. Other times they said they were dead, but there was no way of knowing for certain.
Q: We don't have any troubles like that today - it's easy enough for them to go to Billingsgate.
Both: Oh yes, yes.
Nl: In the vivier tanks - the trucks with the tanks in them.
Q; With the boxes in circulation?
NI: Yes, they have everything - just as if they are in the sea.
Q: I suppose some of them reach the hotel or restaurant and stay in the water until the man comes in for his dinner and asks for the big one in the comer.
DZ: I suppose so.
NI: They have these tanks in the boats today and they go from one tank to the other in the lorry, and go to Spain or France or wherever.
Q: I suppose going long distances like that, they need a little food.
NI: Well, I don't know what they give them they won't be long.
DZ: Oh, they don't give them anything: they will only be there two days.
NI: No, they don't give them anything; it will be two days at the most, something like that.
Q: Now this company that started after the war - the Crofter's Supply Agency - weren't they looking for markets for you?
NI: They started putting lobsters …. there is a big sea pond here that was made by Murchadh Morrisdan, and his son Danny had it after him. And he would buy the lobsters and send them. And it was Danny's son, Calum - Calum Ruaridh, he was then with SAOS as an agent, and he would open this pond, and the pond in Harris, and the Crofter's Supply Agency would buy the lobster. There was a proper market for them, for the first time ever.
Q: That made things easier for you?
NI: Oh yes. much easier, and they marketed the lobster. They took them in the autumn when they were plentiful and marketing them through the winter and the spring from the pond. That made a big difference to this place.
DZ: Tell him now how the pond was built; you know the story better than I do: how Murchadh Moorrisdan went to Australia.
NI: He went to Australia. He had it in his mind to make a pond, and he went to Australia. He worked his passage on a ship, so that he would make money to build a wall around that pond. And he took many years - I don't know how many years he spent in Australia. According to Alex John, he told him that while he was there, he was scared someone else would build a wall around the pond. He came back - he worked his way there, but he came back as a passenger, and he started on the pond, and he finished it. He put lobsters in it, the first ones in 1863; that's when the first lobsters went in. Now it was worked; it was worked by his family, himself and Danny his son - I'm not sure if it was around the 1930s that Danny stopped using it …. it was around then. Sometime in the 1930s that Danny stopped putting lobsters there. Now it wasn't used after that until the Crofter's Supply Agency used it.
Q: Now it is said that the lobsters left Bemera in the 1830s down to Billingsgate?
NI: Yes. in 1827, sixty thousand lobsters from Loch Roag went down to Billingsgate, and it was the 'smantraichean' with the tanks, that they were then, and they took a fortnight from being in the Loch to when they reached Billingsgate.
Q: I'm sure they were all alive then.
NI: They were all alive, and it was said that they were very happy to get them at that time down to Billingsgate.
Q: I'm sure as we got modern - the thing that killed the lobsters in the 20s and 30s was the heat on the trains.
NI: Yes, I'm sure that's what it was. The 'smantraichean' with the tanks stopped taking them down and they going by train. Now today, they are back on the tanks, like we have just said.
DZ: The wheel had just turned.
NI: Yes, just turned full circle.
Q: What was this 'smank'?
NI: They were liners that came up from England and the would be fishing here, and they had tanks, just like the vivier tanks that they have today and they caught the fish out at sea here, the trout and the ling and put them in the tank and took them down south. Now they did the same with the lobster, they fuelled the tanks and went down to Billingsgate with them. Liners with sails, they called them English 'smanks'
Q: Neil - the lobster isn't a beautiful fish. is it?
NI: It depends who's looking at it. (some tape missing)…. and he took the ferry back after his ceilidh in the afternoon. Angus had a few creels set and he lifted them on their way over and they caught lobsters. The first lobster that was on board, it was on the ballast, on the boat there. Kenneth looked at it and said, 'Oh isn't he an ugly beast?' Angus looked, he stopped pulling and looked at it and said, 'What'? Do you mean the most beautiful beat I have ever set eyes on?'
Now that's the way the two say it!
Calum and Marv MacDonald. 2 Lundale
interviewed by Elizabeth Macleod
M: It was two in Lundale, it was Iain Lundale they called the man who came here, Calum's father, Iain Aonghais Anna Neil he was called. It was from Valasay that people came to Lundale one hundred and three years ago. Lundale was a tack belonging to Linshader until around that time anyway. There was a white house in the corn yard at the front of our own house and that hill was called 'Cnoc an Taigh Geal' (the hill of the white house) and it was a grieve or somebody like that who lived there It was there that Aonghas, Aonghas lain Bhig was born. There is nothing left there on the site today because the stones from the ruins would have been taken for building other houses, It was on Tormod Ban's croft that the white house was. As you know there are six crofts in Lundale and it was from Tobson and Valasay that everybody who lived here came.
E: Everybody living in Lundale?
M: Everybody who came, came from Tobson and Valasay_ Domhnall Empshon came with an uncle who lived at no. I . Aonghas Anna Neil, Calum's grandfather, came to no.2. Tormod Ban came to no.3. Tormod Murchadh Camhlaidh. They all came from Tobson except Ian Lundale's father. Aonghas Beag who came to no.4, he came from Tobson. To no.5 came an uncle of Domhnal Anna's wife, her mother's brother, and that is the croft that Domhnal Uilleam has today. Domhnall Chalum Domhnall. Coinneach Chalum Domhnall — and Calum Domhnall himself — came to no.6. Now when Doligan got married, he built a separate house, and Calum Domhnall's house is the ruin down by the shore. Now their descendants are in these crofts today apart from no.3 — Tormod Ban's croft — that is Seamus' — because some of that family were in Canada, Anna was in Callanish and she sold the croft. Chirstag and Calum lived in the home, they were unmarried, and when they died, Anna sold the place to Seamus Dhomhnall Mhic Hensey. Everybody else are descendants — like Alda and Calum. Florie. Domhnall Uilleam and Uilleam although they are different — they are of the same people
C: They are descendants of them.
E: Now Calum 's mother?
M: She was from Crulivig — Catriona Domhnall Dhonnchaidh she was called and she was born and brought up at no.3. She married in 1896 and then came to Lundale.
E: And she was a sister?
M: Yes, the sister of Domhnall Beag and the sister of Calum na Doune — Calum of the Doune in Kirkibost — and the sister of Aonghas Ruaidh's wife in Breasclete. Another sister and two brothers went over to Canada and America, another brother went to Dundee and his descendants are today in New Zealand. and we know of them.
E: How many were in your family?
C: Nine.
M: Nine — himself and Anna are the only ones alive today of the family. Anna is ninety-six and he is eighty-three. That's all from me; I'm off to bake.
E: Was it up to Crulivig you went to school?
C: Yes, in Crulivig, everyone in the family.
E: Who taught you then?
C: It was Eban MacAskill, that's who was there when I went to school. She was from Lochs.
E: Was she there the whole time you were in school?
C: No, another one came after her — Etta MacFarlane from Stornoway — from Tong.
E: What did you do when you left school?
C: Oh, I just worked the croft here. My eldest brother had gone to New Zealand. and Donald the next eldest and lain, they were going to work on the mainland and Donald got a croft in Linshader — the one Roddy has — and to gillie instead of my father in 1925.
E: Was it yourself who was a gillie?
C: Yes, I started once he died in 1939.
E: Where did you go?
C: To Grimersta.
E: Who was with you?
C: The first year I was there was Coinneach Ally and the Saighdear. I don't think there was anybody else there from here when I started going.
E: What did you do as a gillie? Were there many people there?
C: Oh it was different then. When I first started the only workers were one or two who were around the lodge, but they had a lot of gillies. There were three or four from Callanish — the Saighdear was a gillie the first year I was there and Coinneach Ally — nobody else from here that year.
E: Did you walk there?
C: No, the road was built then, but the people here before me walked — my father and Donald were walking for a long while.
E: Did you have a van for going there?
C: Well I got a van in 1940 I think
E: You had a motorbike first and then a van.
C: Yes
E: Did you enjoy that work?
C: Yes on a good day. We were there in the summertime — up until the end of November. Now if it was good weather, it was very good indeed
E: What did you have to do?
C: When I started there, I was a second gillie and all I had to do was help the first gillie, if he needed somebody to help him row from one side of the loch to the other. and you could take the oars from him when he was tired, and when it was windy it was tough enough.
E: Were they kind people, the guests?
C: Yes, they were kind enough. You might just have one man for the week and then three or four could come and maybe stay for a month. You know, the way the syndicate were, they owned the place.
E: How long did you work there?
C: I think, I started in '49 and stopped in '75 when I was sixty-five.
E: You were there for a long time. You would have had the croft work to do when you got home?
C: Yes
E: Did you have cows and sheep then?
C: Yes. At that time every house had two cows and as many sheep as you could manage.
E: And peats?
C: Yes.
E: They had the big crews for peats then — not like today. everybody doing their own.
C: Yes, but there was a lot of people then. Now, when I started in Grimersta there was no one in the house but myself and my sister. When I stopped going to school, and for a while after that, there were two or three more than that in the house — there was my younger brother and Domhnall, he was here all the time, even although he had a croft in Linshader and had built a house there and the house that is there today — he never went there.
E: Why didn't he go, having built the house?
C: Well, I don't know exactly why, it was better than being here.
M: He wasn't married and he had no reason to go, he was in the home here and he had the house ready if he was to marry but Domhnall died. Was it in ' 50 or '51 that Domhnall died?
C: In '50 1 think.
M: In '50, it was in '51 that your mother died, wasn't it?
C: No, no.
M: No, it was your mother who died in '50 and Domhnall in '51.
C; Aye, it was when Domhnall died that I started in Grimersta.
M: When Calum stopped in Grimersta, that was one hundred years unbroken service that their family had given Grimersta. His grandfather Domhnall Dhonnchaidh. his father and Domhnall and himself — that was one hundred years of continuous service between gilling and other work.
C: When one person stopped, the next person went in his place.
C: My grandfather was building Grimersta Lodge. he was a labourer then and when they were building an extension to the lodge, my father was a labourer, and when they built the underkeeper's cottage, I wasn't a labourer — but I did clear the site for it, myself and another of the gillies. We cleared the site for the house and the man was living there before the start of the next season again In April.
E: Was it Gillies there then?
C: Yes. Gillies was the keeper then.
M: When? When they built the underkeeper's cottage? It was Livingstone, Roddy Livingstone.
C: Yes.
E: Oh yes, so it was.
M: I remember that. I was here myself then, Now if you want facts about Linshader, the best person is Coinneach Blue.
E: Yes, it was from Crulivig he came from.
M: Oh yes. it was from this side that everybody in Linshader came.
C: His grandfather and my grandfather started gilling together in Grimersta.
M: If I wasn't baking I could show you the photographs of these old men. It was in 1925 wasn't it? — that the people went to Linshader. I know that ordinance survey book that we have a photocopy of — that I got from Tormod Tom's wife — it tells of all the villages — it was Uig, Linshader and Garynahine. Now I think it was in '21 that they went to Croir, 1921 and it was, I think, 1925 that they went to Linshader. Coinneach Blue went from Crulivig and Domhnall Iain's croft at no. 8. Coinneach Domhnall Anna — Doligan's family. Everybody but Domhnall lain Alasdair — he was the grieve there in Linshader_
C: He looked after the sheep.
M: He looked after the sheep and such and he was in what they called the 'farm house' (tigh a' farm).
E: In Linshader?
M: Yes, in Linshader_ Domhnall Iain Alasdair was from Lochs but the rest of them had a connection with Grimersta. Now there was their Donald, and An MacKay who was a gamekeeper
C: When Linshader was divided up there was ten crofts and there were ten gillies in Grimersta at that time and the syndicate gave the ten gillies the opportunity to take the crofts — some of them did. but not many.
M: You know it belongs to the Grimersta estate?
E: Yes.
C: Coinneach Blue will know about these matters because it was the year he started school that their family went to Linshader. He had started in Crulivig school, like that he will remember because he had a good memory.
E: Were there many going to school with you?
C: Oh fifteen or sixteen, but the numbers were getting smaller and smaller. There were four, if not five, of our own family attending.
E: Did you enjoy school?
C: Oh it was too confined. There were too many attending at first.
M: That is an old man who lived in Linshader at one time — Calum's grandfather - Domhnall Dhonnchaidh, that's his wife and their eldest son Aonghas (shows photo).
C: Grimersta was very good when it was the same gillies year after year.
E: You Coinneach Ally was with you there?
C: Yes, the first year I started, after Domhnall's death, I was in the same boat as Coinneach Ally. I was the second gillie and Coinneach was the first gillie- Coinneach was a very interesting character.
E: He was a big strong man.
C: Yes, he was.
E: Coinneach Iain was a while in Grimersta, up until he retired.
C: Yes, but he was late in going there. history of Grimersta was over before he came.
E: Yes, it was in the last when he went. Were there happier times when you first started?
C: Yes, you see it was always the same gillies, year after year.
M: I'll tell you a funny story about Gillies. When Calum went he took his motorbike but one day he had a breakdown at Acarsaid, so he just left the motorbike there, and Gillies kept the Saighdear watching the motorbike to see when the person returned — thinking they were poachers! The next morning he was asked why he didn't recognise the motorbike he had seen every day outside the house — Calum's motorbike!
C: Of course I walked down the next day and when they enquired what had happened to the motorbike I told them — it was then they realised they had spent all night watching it!
E: Did they catch many salmon then?
C: Yes, yes. they hadn't started trawling then — oh they had — they started trawling after the war and it was after the war I went there.
E: Was there a lot of poaching going on?
C: Oh no — the way Grimersta was then, you couldn't do much poaching. There were two watchers on the stretch at the end of the road here, another two watchers on the upper end and the way that is there was so much space for poaching that you couldn’t be everywhere. It was easy enough on the river and the first loch, there was a road to that and on a pushbike you could come on somebody unawares.
E: I see the river down there, did salmon go up there?
C: Which one?
E: The Lundale river. Did any go up there?
C: Yes, if there was a flood in the summer when the fish were going up the loch, maybe one would make a mistake and go up the Lundale river but it wouldn't get back — somebody would catch it. I remember then, more fish went to the Lochs there than nowadays I remember often enough, when it was very wet in July, we often got salmon there. (more photographs shown)
E: Do you remember when the men left for the first war? What age would you have been?
C: I was only four years old.
E: You wouldn't
C: Wasn't it 1914 it started? I remember when they came home.
E: 1919 they came home.
M: I can't remember the War ending, but I do remember Domhnall an Sean Bhaile, he was lost on the 'Iolaire'. I remember his last leave, I went with him to Murchadh Dholaig's house. I can't remember the ' Iolaire' being lost, but I was born in 1915, I was only four years old.
E: You can remember his leave?
M: I remember him. Domhnall Seorais is very like him, I remember his face and I suppose it was because he was in navy uniform that I can remember. Now I remember my grandfather in Hacklete. I was four when he died, and I remember him better than I do my grandmother. I remember my grandmother was a big woman but I can't remember her face as well as I can remember my grandfather's. I think it is because he was always sitting in the one place whereas my grandmother was moving around the house. I always find that strange to remember that and not remember the ‘Iolaire' being lost.
E: Do you remember Mary's father?
C: No, no — we didn't have a bridge or anything and we didn't really know the Bernera people then — except that I would go on my holidays in the summer to the Doune — where Dolly na Doune is today — Dolly' s grandfather was my uncle.
E: Was it just in the summer that you went over?
C: Yes, just in the school holidays.
E; Did you enjoy going there?
C: Yes, I had more freedom there than here — I had to stay with the cows here.
E: You didn't have to work on your holidays?
C: Oh, there was still work to be done but I had to be coaxed into it.
E: Were there other young children over there with you?
C: Yes. the young ones from Kirkibost itself — Iain Dhomhnall an Camhlaidh and all these people, they were close to me in age.
E: What sort of pastimes did you have when you were all together?
C: Running, playing football, things like that — fishing for cuddies, things like that.
M: Here I am, running down the MacInnes family. and you belong to them yourself.
E: Yes.
M; I wonder how you are related to Calum.
E: I don't know, but I have a feeling you are going to tell me!
C: Elizabeth's father and myself are third cousins.
M: Yes, that's right. On your Breaclete grandmother's side — Peggy Anna Aonghais Tharmoid Ruaidh. Tormod Ruaidh was a brother of Donnchadh Crulivig, so she was your father's great grandmother. So Calum and your father are third cousins, like he said.
C: Your father knew that all very well.
E: Oh yes. he was very good with family relations. In the past. they used to talk a lot about that, and the children could listen and remember.
C: Oh yes, it was a pastime for them, you know. (shows pictures of picnics)
E: Did you go on a picnic yourself?
M: Oh I didn't go on picnics. When the road was built from Acarsaid to Ard a' Chaolais, Neil had a bus and Calum Gobha had a bus. The only picnic I remember going on was to the lighthouse in Ness, I was out on the balcony. You know. I left home when I was nineteen. that is the only picnic I remember going on although I do know that they used to go for a lot of picnics. I remember Anna Chalum Madson, Aonghas na Douine's wife and a crowd being home on holiday and they went for a picnic to Vuia — Mary an t-Seann Bhaile and probably Murchadh if he was in Glasgow then, and Calum or lain Chalum Madson_ either one of them anyway, and later on they went to visit relatives in Uig (Calum Madson came from Uig) and while they were there somebody asked them. 'do you know who these clowns were dancing on Vuia last week?' It had been themselves! That was the kind of picnics they had.
E; Calum, do you remember going on any picnics?
C: Yes. I would have been twenty-two when the road opened, they would be going for a picnic every year then.
E: Where did you go?
C; To Uig, Hamis, and Ness. I think these three places.
E: Would many go?
C: A full bus — as many as the bus would take.
E: Was it a big day? Was it an early start?
C: Yes, we left around ten thirty, eleven o' clock. It's hard for people to understand an excursion to Uig or Harris, with Coinneach lain with a melodeon. We probably have a picture here somewhere of him playing the melodeon.
E: Now that's what Chirsty Ann was telling me.
C: Murchadh Aonghais Bhig and Neil Aonghais Bhig - they were good playing the melodeon, they would be on the outings prior to Coinneach lain.
E: Did you take your food with you?
C: No, the way it worked is that the men paid for the bus, for the hire, and the women would take food, sandwiches, tea etc.
E: There were no flasks then. Did you make a fire for heating the water and making the tea?
C: Yes, you'd throw a bag of peats into the bus.
E: Was that your first picnic at twenty-two?
C: Yes, when the road opened.
E: Were there many cars on this side then, on the Tir Mod?
C: No, there were no cars.
E: You had a motorbike?
C: No, not then, Well my brother had a motorbike a long time before the war. It would be very easy for anyone to have a motorbike today if prices were as low as they were then. It was a brand new motorbike - £30. You get it today tar over £300.
E: You would spend that on petrol today
C: Well. that's what it cost - £30 — brand new, out of the factory. It was here that the number plates were put on.
E: Who had the first car here?
C: Domhnall Uilleam had the first car.
(a few seconds missing)
E: How would he get it across?
M: In a boat — the nurses car was taken across in a boat.
E: It must have been a big boat then
M: Well, the boat we had ourselves in Hacklete took the nurses car over. I think the car was put on the boat and then towed to the other side. I know our own boat - it was Coinneach my brother that as in charge of it, I don't know who was with him, and Aonghas Tharmoid Oig drove the car onto the boat, and drove the car off at the quay at the end of the road and then went up to the top of the hill with it.
C: There were no drivers then.
M: There weren't many people who could drive then. Now it was a gig that Iain Illarmod Bhig with mails. The gig is still at Loch Rig Sandavag.
M: Well. where it was. The north of the loch, a bit near Croir — from the Tobson road end .
E: Where did you learn to drive?
C: Oh just in and out of the road itself. I had never sat in a car before until I got a van myself.
E: Who taught you?
C: Domhnall na h-Airde.
E: Did you have to go for a test?
C: Yes, twice. I passed the second time.
M: You know. there was a time when you could get a licence without sitting a test. You know lain Tharmoid Bhig eventually got a van for the mail and all he did was apply for it. That was all you had to do — just apply — and it was the same for all of Scotland, and you got it — even if you'd never had your hands on a car — you got your licence.
C: That was before the tests.
E: Did you have to go to Stornoway for your test?
C: Yes.
E: Were you always working around the croft, after coming from Grimersta?
C: Yes .
E: Did you work sheep?
C: Yes, everything they had to have done.
E: Did everyone in the village help each other at a fank?
C: Yes, just like today, they would help each other. When the war started, I can't remember whether it was six or seven year old sheep we had at the end of the War — we had thirty five. There was no price for the wool before the War, or for sheep
